Talk:Alchemy Guide by Ctownwoody
On Bloody Bolt Heads From talking to others at this stage and based on my own experience with two crafts above 70, you want to figure between 36-48 synths per level, which is between 2 and 3 full stacks (of x99) of boltheads per level of Alchemy. My advice, based on the numbers, is to have an exit-strategy before you go overboard on this. The entire week I spent crafting Bloody Bolt Quivers was not a fun one, even if I made a ton of gil on it, because 1500 synths + 300 synths making Ash Lumber and running around constantly for crystals, Bundling Twine and Carnations. --Ctownwoody 17:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC) What, no Echo Drops? For me, the Silent Oil synth is the bane of my existence. Beeswax is expensive, and Beehive Chips are a pain and a half to farm. Echo Drops is a moderately profitable synth that caps at 21. The big sell point for me was the honey. I did my best to farm as many beehive chips as I could. Honey seemed to have a better drop rate than beehive chips (And even if it doesn't, you'd get one honey faster than six beehive chips any day) so I had loads of the stuff when I realized there was a synth within skill-up range of me that I could use them for. I got more skill ups from 18 to 21 off of Echo Drops than I got off of Silent Oils. I didn't do all the math, but it might be a good bridge synth. I know it definitely is if you try to farm the chips and synth your own beeswax. --IneptOne 05:44, 17 December 2008 (UTC) *IneptOne, I took a look at Echo Drops over the last 2 months or so, and they are barely break-even at best. I've got them in my "Profit" section because they do much better when you can HQ 2-3 of them at once. --Ctownwoody 16:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC) A few notes for high-levels Once you pass 91, supply becomes the key issue. Philosopher's Stone are fiercely fought over. Some people prefer to buy the stacks at a huge premium, as much as 50% over the price of singles, in order to get skill now. I suggest bidding your time and stocking up. Also, you will, from mid 80s until 98, be making Nuggets for use in Goldsmithing. Gold Nuggets cap at 54 for Nuggets -> Ingots and Platinum caps at 64 for the same. If you have the option of using them, that's cool. If not, find friends at those stages and use them to help you get supplies. --Ctownwoody 15:28, 4 April 2009 (UTC) With the level cap bump and I presume the simplicity of getting philosopher's stones now, the price has utterly tanked. Sun Waters might be the best way to 100 in the end, except for the snag that I've run into, where the limiting factor has become cactuar roots. Inexpensive, just frustratingly short supply. --MlrlOhki 00:45, July 24, 2010 (MDT) I can answer as to why supply is so bad: NM only drops. Its just as bad (if not worse) than Dried Mugwort to get your hands on a reliable supply. And since Cactuar are a pain and an ache all rolled into one normally, the NM ones are a lot less fun (take it from me). Additionally, only 2 of the 5 or so NMs drop anything valuable in terms of AH and are uncamped for just that reason, and when you add in long respawn times its just more time-friendly to do Pro-Ethers. Which the rare ingredients can be farmed easily in Riverne/Zvahl and are considerably more common on the AH because of their limited uses, even though Philo Stones are now more common then Pebble. =/ InfamousDS 20:14, September 22, 2010 (UTC) Venom potion experience One thing that helped me out quite a bit in the 60s was going into the Crawler's nest with a few stacks of mercury and a few stacks of lightning crystals, and lots of open space in my inventory. I went as MNK75/DNC37 and pounded on Mushussus and Crawler Hunters (Both of which are 100 percent two Scorpion Claw drops), and harvested the water crystals from the water elementals that are almost always there. Even if you bought the mercury (Which I did since there were never denizanazi or cobalt jellyfish in stock and my fishing sucks) and lighting crystals, you can still come out ahead by using the keys that drop (Chest key for Mushussu and Coffer Key from Crawler Hunter) and selling the load of scorpion shells that will accumulate, since these are also 100 percent drops off both mobs. Admittedly, I now have about 10 stacks of potions at almost Alchemy 67 and I dread the venom bolt idea, but at this point I can make pure profit off selling the potions, as the ingredients are already paid for by the shells and chests. --Mlrlohki 11:20, May 4 2009 (MDT) *Mlrlohki, thanks for the input. I did look at Scorpion Claws as a route for Venom Dust, but chose Ogre Eels as the better route owing to their stackability in part, but mostly the higher cap. Also, I generally design my guides to avoid or minimize farming for ingredients as much as possible. For cheap Mercury, I suggest the Bibiki Bay fishing guild, on the docks. Unless someone else is camping it, it usually has maximum stock and minimum prices. --Ctownwoody 14:06, 9 May 2009 (UTC) *If you aren't in a rush, you can just wait for someone leveling alchemy as a subcraft to dump all their venom dust. The most popular recipes to get to 60 are either Venom Dust or Hi-Potions, and most people would rather sell 4 stacks of Venom Dust at a loss than have to sell 48 Hi-Potions one at a time or NPC 48 of them for a major loss. I ended up buying 6 stacks at 6k a piece, which is more than enough to get from 61 to 67. --Yjhuoh 02:44, November 30, 2009 (UTC) Glass Fiber I noticed you didn't include Glass Fiber as an alternative to Cermet. The recipes (for quick reference) are 61Fire and 8 flints (very easy and cheap) or 62Fire and Meteorite (why bother, R/Ex ingredient seems foolish). It's infinitely easier to get materials for this than any of the cermet recipes, although the sheer number of stones per synth requires a lot more stacks. On Quetzalcoatl though, stacks of Flint range from 500-1500, whereas stacks of doll or golem shards are 30k+. 1 stack of glass w/o breaks at minimum price is 4k (maximum 12k, 8 stacks of stones), and a stack of cermet at same conditions is 60k. The glass can be used to make money in the form of prism powder or shrimp lures, and as far as I can tell your guide makes little mention of cermet past flowerpots, except halcyon rod. Just a curious thing I noticed, don't add it if you don't feel it is worth it. InfamousDS 04:13, 24 May 2009 (UTC) *Glass Fiber isn't efficient, since the Guilds can sell them for as low as 600 each, or 7200 per stack, and high-level Alchemits will routinely de-synth Goblin Masks for them. If Glass Fibers are 600 each, that translates to 900 gil per Flint Stone stack, if you don't include crystal prices, which I do in my calculations. As a result, you're looking at something like 700-800 per stack of Flint Stones, where they usually are selling for a round 1k per stack. Additionally, if you can make Flint Stones into Glass Fiber, you can de-synth Goblin Masks as a source. Now, all that being said, yes, you can use this as a way to finish things off, and, if you make re-use the fibers, it can be profitable, but it's not as profitable as simply buying them from the Guilds. *I actually tried this method, but regretted it afterwards. The fibers don't move fast enough and the number of Flint Stones you need is ridiculous. I did this with Ease of Exploration up (so I could go to all home nations and Jeuno) and there just weren't enough Flint Stones in stock. The worst part is when you start buying out all of them people will up the price. On the 3rd or 4th day of buying up Flint Stones, they were at 1500 a stack. --Yjhuoh 02:48, November 30, 2009 (UTC) Baking Soda At least on Cerberus presently, it seems that the recommendation for baking soda in your alchemy guide now comes at a loss (22k per stack of shells, going to be sitting at 17k after running them all the way through to baking soda and selling them, this with minimal breaks), mostly due to the increase in crystal prices, however for the purpose of skillups it is still the best I have found. Zaulot 08:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC) *Zaulot, that's why I advise everyone to research their own server's economy. It's also why, in cases where I recommend selling the product to NPCs, that I am careful to include calculations as to the maximum price you can pay for the ingredients in order to break-even or profit. That being said, Baking Soda is useful because between Poison Potions and Blinding Potions, there isn't much that's easy or cheap. --Ctownwoody 15:13, 6 June 2009 (UTC) Just a quick comment on this synth. One stack of shells is all you need. Just synth on Iceday w/ advanced support to make sure you don't break any of the carbon dioxide synths. I bought two stacks just to be on the safe side. I ended up overshooting by quite a lot of synths.--Yjhuoh 02:51, November 30, 2009 (UTC) The 30's A couple extra ideas for the 30s for people who don't have a lot of inventory space for lenses but are scared of the jump: you can try to get another level off Jusatsu which caps at 37, sell quickly, and actually gives a tiny profit for HQ on my server (other servers maybe not). The trouble there is of course the rather expensive Beastman Blood, which some may not wish to risk on breaks. But if you play NIN and would buy them anyway, it might be worth it. Another idea which works for me but maybe not for everyone is Living Keys which cap at 39. These don't sell fast on AH, but my main is Thf and I love picking chests, so I plan to get an extra level off a few stacks and let them pay for themselves and more when I use them to loot and pillage. If your LS has a 50+ Thf, they might want to buy a stack or two of keys off you at cost, since they're so useful for picking AF coffers, certain CoP missions, etc etc. --NanaaMihgo 03:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC) *Yeah, the upfront costs for Beastman Blood is a huge factor, also, you'd have to have Woodworking 45 for the Bast Parchment, otherwise, you're ceding a good deal of profit away. But frankly, Asura is thick with people who HQ these for a main profit source. I also looked at Living Keys when making the guide and leveling but they don't sell fast enough to use and NPC for too little compared to cost. --Ctownwoody 15:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC) *I just did potions at 31. They bring you to 40, and they NPC for a slight loss. I had a few breaks at first, but waiting for Firesday made it possible. Sage can be found for less than 166 (max fame price from NPCs) from the guild on a good day. Lizard tails are in low supply, but just watch the AH and buy them up when they're in stock. NPCs for 133 to regular NPC, 146 to guild. 60 to 70gil loss per synth, which I thought was acceptable considering the alternative was waiting for your artificial lenses to sell, one at a time, or NPCing them for a 600 gil loss per synth. I did Sairui-ran to 28 and bought the blinding potions for the boltheads off the AH for 5k a stack (this was before the add-on caused the prices to spike), so I could sell the boltheads at 20k a stack for a nice profit, more than enough to pay the potion synths. --Yjhuoh 03:08, November 30, 2009 (UTC) Poison Powder & Yellow Globes For fisherman of low-mid level skill with a job capable of it, I recommend using a sabiki rig at the ice pond in Qufim, taking breaks during lightning weather to farm the elementals. There are four, one for each cliff by the sea. Over the course of a few hours I was able to farm 12 lightning clusters and 12 stacks of Yellow Globes - the sabiki rig can catch two or three at a time. With this I was able to go from alchemy6 to alchemy18 in a day. On my server poison potions go for 14k/stack, and I was able to get very cheap jellyfish from the guild for mercury, meaning that by the time I was done I had alchemy18 and ~70k in profit. Not as much as I could make in the same amount of time in Talacca Cove, but still very nice for 12 points of skillup. --QuetzElohim 03:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC) *Thanks for the testimonial! This is exactly why I say that Fishing goes well with Alchemy and/or Cooking as a source of double-skill. The Bibiki Bay Fishing Guild, near the docks, is the best source, if remote, for Cobalt Jellyfish. --Ctownwoody 15:58, 8 August 2009 (UTC) Blinding Potion - alternate approach for Fishermen Another tip for fishermen - Alchemy (28) Yield: Blinding Potion x 2 HQ 1: Blinding Potion x 4 HQ 2: Blinding Potion x 6 HQ 3: Blinding Potion x 8 Lightning Crystal * 1 x Mercury * 1 x Nebimonite Nebs are incredibly easy to catch, an hour in SSG can net you 3-4 stacks. The price of 2 stacks of blinding potions tracks pretty close to the price of a stack of nebs on my server, or make blinding bolts. Plus takes up less inventory room than the sleepshroom version of the recipe, and gives you two chances to HQ if you make the mercury yourself. --QuetzElohim 05:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC) *Yeah, I'm taking another look at these. These do have the benefit of being stackable and being able to be crafted outside Jeuno...This works especially well for people that fish for skill, but I will still warn that fishing for ingredients doesn't save on cost, just on expense, as it costs you time to fish... --Ctownwoody 14:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC) Recommendation for bolt head synthers Don't just blindly put your bolt heads on the most convenient AH if you're not synthing your bolts. Check the AH of the nation which is first in conquest that week, as many crafters will be there for quivering. Also a good idea to sell Ash Lumber at these cities if you're levelling Woodworking in order to sell your own bolts. Glass Fiber from Flint Stones This is COMPLETELY dependant on current prices of stones and fibers on your server, but if you have a mountain of them laying about from exping on worms, or perhaps farming Morion/Phantom, then this can be a cheap way to push up to 60-61. Note however that it uses 8 stones for 1 fiber, so the profits are slim-nil but given what stones are worth, it could make a bit more money than simply selling them. ALWAYS check prices before starting a synth, even if it's the only one a guide has listed in your range! --Headache 13:39, July 7, 2010 (UTC) *At one point I did have Glass Fibers, but took them out because the Goblin Masks for them much cheaper than that. --Ctownwoody 15:37, July 10, 2010 (UTC) *Look at the above post for more info about this as well. Also, I have found Morbid Eye to be a reliable source of wings if your server only sells a few a day or week(like mine). If you bring along craft mats, you can also get great profits from Eye Drops and Prism Powders (I've been selling to NPC, my AH is full of HQ weapons left-over from getting Guild Points). For Prisms, 1200gil for 2 fiber + 300 (3600/stack Light Crystal), each synth sells for ~2800gil, so 1300 profit. Eye Drops are 140gil(130 Chamomile + 10 D.Water)+ 100gil (1200/stack Water Crystal) for 240gil/synth, each synth sells for ~1000gil, so 760gil profit. That isn't including the almost certain HQ you'll have if you're at 85+ skill. You can average around 2 wings/hr, so its not the best way to get them and its completely useless on a mule, but it is something to consider if your having issues w/ supply and trying to make those ethers for skill (namely Pro at 100 skill). I can get between 100k-150k profit for 4 hours this way, but I get lots of HQ as well. InfamousDS 18:57, September 21, 2010 (UTC)